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The Westering Sun's avatar

Magoon ended the exchange by declaring that I was 'a parrot,' 'not intellectually serious,' and that since I refused to wade through his links, there was 'no need to continue the discussion.'

This was, in its own way, the perfect conclusion. For what he cannot grasp is that the point I am making cannot be 'proved with evidence.' The claim that progress is a myth is not a matter of disputing graphs or GDP figures, but of exposing the frame that makes those numbers seem self-evidently redemptive. Progress Studies has no answer to this, because its very existence rests on the conflation of measurement with meaning.

That is why its adherents can only repeat themselves: line goes up, therefore progress. And it is why they become testy and rude when pressed on the philosophical ground they deny but cannot escape. Magoon thought he was closing the discussion; in truth, his performance was the strongest evidence for my argument. Progress Studies is not a discipline. It is apologetics for a dying myth.

The West does not need progress. It needs resurrection.

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Michael Magoon's avatar

Since you directly address me in this article, let me reply in depth.

Be honest, have you actually ever read anything written by member of Progress Studies? And, no, I do not mean a quick skim. My guess is no.

It looks like you just really hate the word “Progress” and have a preconceived notion of what Progress Studies is combined with no desire to validate whether your preconceived notion is correct.

I think before critiquing a field of intellectual inquiry, you should actually read what they have to say. I see no evidence that you have actually read anything in Progress Studies or discuss with members of the field, despite the fact that I gave you a number of links overviewing the field. You seem to be just trying to jam it into a preconceived notion.

Endlessly repeating that “progress is a myth” is not evidence to support your claim. Nor does endlessly repeating “this conflates fact with meaning.”

In your previous comments, you state “Nobody denies changes in material standards of living.” If nobody denies it, then it is clearly not a myth!

If you do not care about its origins and causes, fine, but we do.

In this article, you go from one incorrect statement to another:

1. I am neither “a conservative nor a libertarian”. Nor do you actually give evidence that they are wrong.

2. Progress Studies is not a “rationalist” movement. It studies what actually happened. That is not rationalism.

3. Progress Studies does not claim “Western populations should not lament the collapse of their civilization." I have no idea where you got that idea.

4. Progress Studies does not “imagine itself the guardian of empiricism.” I have no idea where you got that idea. And by the way, empiricism and rationalism are two distinct beliefs in philosophy, so your claims contradict each other.

5. Yes, Post-Modernism is bullshit. And, yes, it is hostile to Western Civilization.

6. Progress Studies does not claim that “rising living standards equal progress.” It tries to understand the origins and causes of increased material standard of living so we can develop policies to get more of it.

7. I have no idea what “a civilizational prejudice” even means…

8. If “Progress is a dying myth that no longer commands belief” then why do you attack it so hysterically without presenting any evidence.

9. If you want to believe that “the West needs resurrection” fine. That is neither opposed to nor in agreement with increased material standard of living.

10. Massive increases in material standard of living is one of Western Civilization’s finest achievements. If you believe in Western Civilization, you should embrace it, not belittle it.

11. Why are you so obsessed with the name of field? What name would you prefer?

I challenge you to educate yourself, by reading about what Progress Studies actually is:

https://frompovertytoprogress.substack.com/p/what-is-progress-studies

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